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RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

NYPD suicides

20yrSentence · Senior Member

Well said. The pressures on patrol are of the likes that I have never seen especially the rank of sgt now with its unrealistic and impossible expectations. Bwc, vision zero, signing off on a list of new forms that didnt exist before. The responsibilities havent caught up to the current position. I recently got off patrol. I feel like crying every time I think how I could still be trapped in that hell I came from. And to those that still cant get out, I feel terrible. People with ten + years on patrol that have nothing left in the tank, seen every horror are being labeled a zero because they arent cowboying it up. No one is looking out for these people. This is why this is becoming an epidemic.

brooklynbacon · Guru

Im not saying this job doesnt have stress but iirc the recent suicides were all guys in decent details. None were on patrol.

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

Staten Island Sergeant RIP

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

Last night was like Beirut in Brownsville. The cops and sergeants that responded are my heroes. The NYPD suicides get sparked by the flint and steel of a brutal work environment like this and abusive supervisors.

-- Edited by RoboCop1987 on Sunday 28th of July 2019 05:36:39 PM

PD2FD · Guru

RIP to the Sergeant and the 6 others who took their lives this year. 7 for the year is an inordinate amount of lives. We need to end this epidemic SOON !!!

Zeph · Senior Member

We need to pray for our brothers and sisters.

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

A Finest Message came down that the Department is looking for "Peer Assistance Liaisons" from each command to report if there are any employees that show signs of Potential Suicide Risk. If anyone has a copy, can you please post it?

Here are a few tips to reduce suicides for the department higher ups:

1) Instruct Commanding Officers not to abuse and bully employees in the workplace

2) Instruct supervisors that bullying underlings will not lead to promotion

3) Restore All UMOS to the Tier 2 pension system (The new cops do nothing because they feel this job is not worth it. Hence non-arrests for buckets of water)

4) Increase salary

5) Rotate all UMOS from the street to inside positions on a regular basis. In the Military a soldier doesn't work on the front lines of a war zone for 25 years, he gets rotated for his own sanity.
The inside spots on this job are reserved for the relatives, friends and girlfriends of the higher-ups.

(The unions must also step in and be more aggressive in protecting employees in the workplace. I would recommend suing ever time a Commanding Officer bullies and abuses an employee. There will be so many thousands of lawsuits, the department will cave in)

fiftyfouredp · Senior Member

RoboCop1987 wrote:
A Finest Message came down that the Department is looking for "Peer Assistance Liaisons" from each command to report if there are any employees that show signs of Potential Suicide Risk. If anyone has a copy, can you please post it?

Here are a few tips to reduce suicides for the department higher ups:

1) Instruct Commanding Officers not to abuse and bully employees in the workplace

2) Instruct supervisors that bullying underlings will not lead to promotion

3) Restore All UMOS to the Tier 2 pension system (The new cops do nothing because they feel this job is not worth it. Hence non-arrests for buckets of water)

4) Increase salary

5) Rotate all UMOS from the street to inside positions on a regular basis. In the Military a soldier doesn't work on the front lines of a war zone for 25 years, he gets rotated for his own sanity.
The inside spots on this job are reserved for the relatives, friends and girlfriends of the higher-ups.

(The unions must also step in and be more aggressive in protecting employees in the workplace. I would recommend suing ever time a Commanding Officer bullies and abuses an employee. There will be so many thousands of lawsuits, the department will cave in)

6) Protect RDOs. Overtime on RDOs should be strictly volunteer.

7) Make plainclothes and special units sit with and transport their own collars, be it at the base, booking or hospital.

unlike the 5 things you listed, the two things I stated can be accomplished with the flick of some chief's pen, and would result in a huge morale boost for patrol cops. Also, you really think cops aren't collaring for water buckets because of the pension? You're oblivious to the fact that some cops would rather take a dousing of water than spend 8+ hours on a collar in a filthy precinct being annoyed by the perp and hassled by bosses, when they would rather be home.

TransitCop · Senior Member

I agree on transporting your own bodies I did 6 years crime and only volares a bag of **** once because I had no choice. Sit on your own bag of **** and maybe next time you will think twice about that collar so you can make overtime.

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

Another Suicide. RIP.

The suicide rate is one a month on this job. More NYPD officers died by suicide than during the course of duty.

These suicides show that the vast majority of Commanding Officers in every command within the department are sadistic, incompetent bullies.

It doesn't look like the "New Procedures" put in place by the department to prevent suicides is working that well.

Ask any MOS who has served in the military and they will tell you that the military treats theirs employees better than the NYPD.

The NYPD is probably one of the worst employers in the world.

Hint: If the department wants to predict the next suicide, check the Command Discipline Log and take a look at the unjust punishment inflected on hard working Officers and Sergeants.

PD2FD · Guru

Unfortunately, nothing will change with this department. The executives don't care about anyone but themselves. Most of these executives are self-absorbed narcissistic and quite possibly sadistic a-holes. They view members below them as merely "just" a number. One that is easily replaceable by a more affordable option.

I do however, foresee the department creating a one-day MANDATORY training in an attempt to salvage it's reputation and limit it's liability. Similar to the unequivocally BS 20K training we were forced to undergo years ago.

My best advice is to take care of your cops as best as you can. Stand up to the bullying that occurs within this department. Protect your troops as best as you can from the 100 oversight units. Don't give out command disciplines like it's free candy. Distribute the overtime and details evenly. Grow some BALLS and give your cops the day off if they need to spend time with their families (barring they aren't the usual scammers). Take care of each other because unfortunately we only have each other and regrettably, it is only going to get worse.

-- Edited by PD2FD on Wednesday 14th of August 2019 02:45:07 PM

Zeph · Senior Member

Another problem is even if someone gets hit by a CD or charges, why in the hell is it fair to take 20, 25, or 30 days from people? The penalties are off the hook. Taking 25 days from someone is like you get hit with $10,000 fine. I never got hit that hard. But I can imagine how much that hurts especially if you have a family or working in a horrible command.

-- Edited by Zeph on Wednesday 14th of August 2019 03:00:38 PM

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

Another suicide today in the 105. RIP.

The Commanding Officers on this job are the worst supervisors in the world.

It's like working in an incompetent third world country.

The Commanding Officers on this job are taught to give barbaric punishments to cops and sergeants to send a message.

The department has been trying to act like they are responding to this suicide crisis by launching the "ARE YOU OK?" campaign.

Well, I'M NOT OK. I'm not ok with bullying, incompetent Commanding Officers punishing cops and Sergeants over minor infractions in the work place.

I'm NOT OK with bosses abusing their authority by committing breathtaking favoritism in the workplace for to benefit some and unjustly punishing others.

This entire department is a political cesspool of favoritism. The suicides just expose the rotten underbelly of the NYPD.

yougonow · Guru

Aside from all this but guys and girls know damn well if they get their guns taken, it will take a lifetime to get them back. No gun, no shield, just a name plate. Screw that!

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

ARE YOU OK O'NEILL?

ARE YOU OK?

Are you ready to make the biggest decision in the NYPD within the last 30 years?

Here is a suggestion: Do not fire Pantaleo, then resign. You will earn the respect of the entire law enforcement and union-labor movement around the globe.

brooklynbacon · Guru

RoboCop1987 wrote:
ARE YOU OK O'NEILL?

ARE YOU OK?

Are you ready to make the biggest decision in the NYPD within the last 30 years?

Here is a suggestion: Do not fire Pantaleo, then resign. You will earn the respect of the entire law enforcement and union-labor movement around the globe.

If he doesnt fire him:

pantaleo would be buried in admin for the rest of his career. He could never do street work again due to his own safety.

His house would turn into a permanent special attention fixer.

the city would have a ton of protests. Riots maybe?

oneil and 1pp would be pestered constantly with protests.

Oneil would have to move out of the city.

Oneil wouldnt be hired by any big private company due to his baggage and negative publicity.

All this just so oneil can save face with cops? Lol zero chance.

Shotsfired · Guru

brooklynbacon wrote:
RoboCop1987 wrote:
ARE YOU OK O'NEILL?

ARE YOU OK?

Are you ready to make the biggest decision in the NYPD within the last 30 years?

Here is a suggestion: Do not fire Pantaleo, then resign. You will earn the respect of the entire law enforcement and union-labor movement around the globe.
If he doesnt fire him:
pantaleo would be buried in admin for the rest of his career. He could never do street work again due to his own safety.
His house would turn into a permanent special attention fixer.
the city would have a ton of protests. Riots maybe?
oneil and 1pp would be pestered constantly with protests.
Oneil would have to move out of the city.
Oneil wouldnt be hired by any big private company due to his baggage and negative publicity.
All this just so oneil can save face with cops? Lol zero chance.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you.

Nypdnypd3100 · Senior Member

Pantaleo is better off getting fired. He will sue city, and make more money than he will ever make on this job, and not have to deal with the every day BS here. There is zero chance he even wants to be a cop anymore. Job is dead.

20yrSentence · Senior Member

I dont know Pantaleo and what his intentions are and whether he wants to stay or not. But if I were to guess, the PBA is making his decisions for him. They gain from all this fighting the system and if he keeps his job, then the pba has this to put on their mantle and for future campaigns.

Shotsfired · Guru

Nypdnypd3100 wrote:
Pantaleo is better off getting fired. He will sue city, and make more money than he will ever make on this job, and not have to deal with the every day BS here. There is zero chance he even wants to be a cop anymore. Job is dead.

100% right. Why the hell would he want to stay if he doesnt get fired. His career in the NYPD is ruined regardless of the outcome. Better off getting a paid day and getting the hell out of NY.

PD2FD · Guru

brooklynbacon wrote:
RoboCop1987 wrote:
ARE YOU OK O'NEILL?

ARE YOU OK?

Are you ready to make the biggest decision in the NYPD within the last 30 years?

Here is a suggestion: Do not fire Pantaleo, then resign. You will earn the respect of the entire law enforcement and union-labor movement around the globe.
If he doesnt fire him:
pantaleo would be buried in admin for the rest of his career. He could never do street work again due to his own safety.
His house would turn into a permanent special attention fixer.
the city would have a ton of protests. Riots maybe?
oneil and 1pp would be pestered constantly with protests.
Oneil would have to move out of the city.
Oneil wouldnt be hired by any big private company due to his baggage and negative publicity.
All this just so oneil can save face with cops? Lol zero chance.

I would have to disagree with the portion of "Oneil wouldn't be hired by any big private company due to his baggage and negative publicity". On the contrary, the private industry is faced with tough decisions on a daily basis. O'neil firing Pantaleo would show a sign of weakness and poor leadership. The private industry WANTS guys with big BALLS not a guy whoms decision is swayed by proletarians protesting over a "wrong" that doesn't exist. Big pharmacy companies face protest on a daily basis, the NFL has their own players protesting over nonsense etc.

If O'neil fires Pantaleo, he is essentially giving his balls to Deblasio and will commit career suicide. If he keeps him, he will have plenty of job offers from private companies (Example:NFL) that NEED a leader to make tough decisions like this one.

-- Edited by PD2FD on Friday 16th of August 2019 03:31:02 PM

Caballo Loco · Senior Member

PD2FD wrote:
brooklynbacon wrote:
RoboCop1987 wrote:
ARE YOU OK O'NEILL?

ARE YOU OK?

Are you ready to make the biggest decision in the NYPD within the last 30 years?

Here is a suggestion: Do not fire Pantaleo, then resign. You will earn the respect of the entire law enforcement and union-labor movement around the globe.
If he doesnt fire him:
pantaleo would be buried in admin for the rest of his career. He could never do street work again due to his own safety.
His house would turn into a permanent special attention fixer.
the city would have a ton of protests. Riots maybe?
oneil and 1pp would be pestered constantly with protests.
Oneil would have to move out of the city.
Oneil wouldnt be hired by any big private company due to his baggage and negative publicity.
All this just so oneil can save face with cops? Lol zero chance.
I would have to disagree with the portion of "Oneil wouldn't be hired by any big private company due to his baggage and negative publicity". On the contrary, the private industry is faced with tough decisions on a daily basis. O'neil firing Pantaleo would show a sign of weakness and poor leadership. The private industry WANTS guys with big BALLS not a guy whoms decision is swayed by proletarians protesting over a "wrong" that doesn't exist. Big pharmacy companies face protest on a daily basis, the NFL has their own players protesting over nonsense etc.
If O'neil fires Pantaleo, he is essentially giving his balls to Deblasio and will commit career suicide. If he keeps him, he will have plenty of job offers from private companies (Example:NFL) that NEED a leader to make tough decisions like this one.

-- Edited by PD2FD on Friday 16th of August 2019 03:31:02 PM

Not in this day and age. Look how Amazon simply picked up and go at the sight of a few protesters in Queens . Companies do want a guy with balls but they cant stomach bad publicity .

PD2FD · Guru

Caballo Loco wrote:
PD2FD wrote:
brooklynbacon wrote:
RoboCop1987 wrote:
ARE YOU OK O'NEILL?

ARE YOU OK?

Are you ready to make the biggest decision in the NYPD within the last 30 years?

Here is a suggestion: Do not fire Pantaleo, then resign. You will earn the respect of the entire law enforcement and union-labor movement around the globe.
If he doesnt fire him:
pantaleo would be buried in admin for the rest of his career. He could never do street work again due to his own safety.
His house would turn into a permanent special attention fixer.
the city would have a ton of protests. Riots maybe?
oneil and 1pp would be pestered constantly with protests.
Oneil would have to move out of the city.
Oneil wouldnt be hired by any big private company due to his baggage and negative publicity.
All this just so oneil can save face with cops? Lol zero chance.
I would have to disagree with the portion of "Oneil wouldn't be hired by any big private company due to his baggage and negative publicity". On the contrary, the private industry is faced with tough decisions on a daily basis. O'neil firing Pantaleo would show a sign of weakness and poor leadership. The private industry WANTS guys with big BALLS not a guy whoms decision is swayed by proletarians protesting over a "wrong" that doesn't exist. Big pharmacy companies face protest on a daily basis, the NFL has their own players protesting over nonsense etc.
If O'neil fires Pantaleo, he is essentially giving his balls to Deblasio and will commit career suicide. If he keeps him, he will have plenty of job offers from private companies (Example:NFL) that NEED a leader to make tough decisions like this one.

-- Edited by PD2FD on Friday 16th of August 2019 03:31:02 PM
Not in this day and age. Look how Amazon simply picked up and go at the sight of a few protesters in Queens . Companies do want a guy with balls but they cant stomach bad publicity .

FALSE !!! Amazon got up and left for financial reasons, they saw an opportunity to be taxed less and make more money at a different location. It had nothing to do with those protesters. The private industry is cut-throat, it isn't soft like the NYPD, so they need real leaders. There's a reason why Ray Kelly had a ton of job offers when he left this department, he had BALLS.

JustWonderin · Guru

Youre all forgetting one thing. ONeill is very close with Bratton who has his hands in quite a few tech companies including Verizon and the shotspotter technology. ONeill will be WELL taken care of once he leaves this department. Hopefully he sticks to his guns, does not fire Pantaleo and goes out on top with a great legacy.

wereinbacklog · Guru

RoboCop1987 wrote:
ARE YOU OK O'NEILL?

ARE YOU OK?

Are you ready to make the biggest decision in the NYPD within the last 30 years?

Here is a suggestion: Do not fire Pantaleo, then resign. You will earn the respect of the entire law enforcement and union-labor movement around the globe.

Agree, doesn't even appear that difficult of a decision to be honest. Over 30+ years of service, 2+ as a PC and leave the department as a legend by not firing him. Kudos to you for spelling his name correctly lol.

MakeMattersWorse · Veteran Member

IDK, I want to believe that he wont fire him but he's been nothing but selling out so I don't know why he would change now.

JustWonderin · Guru

ONeill is supposed to be addressing the media at 12:30

twitter.com/fox5ny/status/1163464731618885632

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

O'NEILL ARE YOU OK?

ARE YOU OK?

Im not OK. PO Pantaleo was fired by you today.

The evidence presented at his trial showed that Pantaleo was following orders. He was following orders that were in writing!

I better get on my "ARE YOU OK ?" NYPD phone app. That will solve all the employee relation problems for the NYPD

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

Manhattan Sergeant living in Queens just shot himself in the head. RIP

eightleft · Veteran Member

This is the realest thing ive read in a long time. The comments still resonate today.

PD2FD · Guru

The recent suicide should open a lot of eyes. Word is that the Sergeant was being bullied by the Commanding Officer of the 24. This was mentioned to his wife and if true, this CO needs to be disciplined accordingly. The department needs to hold these COs accountable, not just for Compstat purposes but for the mental well-being of the members of service they are supposed to be leading.

STOP THE BULLYING !!!

cop · Senior Member

Something needs to be done on all ranks. Honesty this job is very vindictive, its tough and you need thick skin. I pondered the idea of having at least one member in all ranks in each PCT to have the ability to take issues straight to the top Vs through steps where things go wrong for all the wrong reasons. They also need to back off these inspections units that come for no good looking to meet there numbers.

they should ask the members for ideas and stop thinking of their own because guy who think of stuff dont may not know the real issues.

Good Luck to All

Nothing is worth your Pension

Keep your heads up and look out for each other no matter your rank or soon to be rank

Missing the Bx · Veteran Member

PD2FD wrote:
The recent suicide should open a lot of eyes. Word is that the Sergeant was being bullied by the Commanding Officer of the 24. This was mentioned to his wife and if true, this CO needs to be disciplined accordingly. The department needs to hold these COs accountable, not just for Compstat purposes but for the mental well-being of the members of service they are supposed to be leading.

STOP THE BULLYING !!!

Completely untruthful. Speak To his colleagues and the people that work in the 24. It def wasnt work related

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

NYPD sergeant sent for psych eval, briefly loses guns and gets bumped to midnight shift after accusing supervisor of trying to bully him, records show

By GRAHAM RAYMAN
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
OCT 18, 2019 | 11:49 AM

A veteran sergeant and union rep who called his commanding officer a bully during an argument over his evaluation was then ordered to get a psychiatric exam, briefly lost his guns and got bumped to the midnight shift, according to documents obtained by the Daily News.
Sgt. Harold Gates, 46, got into the argument on Aug. 16 with Deputy Inspector Tania Kinsella at the housing precinct in Coney Island where they both worked. Gates had approached Kinsella to appeal an interim evaluation that gave him a lower rating than he had ever gotten in the past, records show.

During the course of the argument, Gates called Kinsella a bully, and added, Youre the reason cops shoot themselves. Youre the lowest of the low, records show.
The exchange came amidst a suicide crisis in the NYPD, which has lost 10 active officers and two retired cops to suicide this year. Sgt. Linhong Li became the 10th officer to die by suicide after he fatally shot himself in his Queens home after cleaning out his locker at the 24th Precinct in Manhattan. The NYPD is looking into allegations that he was being bullied at the precinct.

After Gates confronted Deputy Inspector Kinsella, she ordered him to see a department psychiatrist, claiming in an official memo that his statements amounted to suicidal ideation. She also criticized the quality of his work in the memo.

Kinsella ordered Gates guns, shield and ID taken, records show. She transferred him that day to Queens VIPER, records show. NYPD Chief of Housing James Secreto approved the move.
Gates passed the mandatory psychiatric interview on the same day Kinsella flagged him as a possible self-harm risk. The NYPD on Aug. 21 sent a memo noting that he was cleared by the supervising psychologist and there are no psychological restrictions prohibiting [him] from carrying firearms, according to a copy obtained by The News. Gates eventually got his guns, shield and ID back.

Then on Aug. 29, he was abruptly transferred to another housing cop precinct in lower Manhattan and assigned to work the graveyard shift, records show.
In an email to The News, Secreto defended the actions taken by Deputy Inspector Kinsella.

This is not the Daily News, he said. A sergeant cannot go off on the deputy inspector without repercussions. I dont consider it a workplace dispute. We are a paramilitary organization.

The NYPD in an emailed statement to The News said Kinsella took the correct course of action. When considering the fact patterns, in their entirety, the actions of Kinsella were well within the purview of her duties as a commanding officer and were appropriate," an NYPD spokesman said.

Gates has been a cop for 13 years. He made 120 arrests on patrol as a police officer. As a sergeant he has supervised thousands of arrests. He is also a lawyer who previously worked for the City Council.

Former NYPD Chief of Patrol Wilbur Chapman, who was not involved in the dispute between Gates and Kinsella, said the deputy inspectors actions appeared to be an abuse of authority.
The idea of being a commander is to motivate in a positive manner production out of your subordinates, said Chapman, who also served as head of training and the city transportation commissioner.

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

If the public or anyone doesn't believe that bullying in the workplace is a rampant problem in the NYPD, they need to read the above article. Victims of Bullying commit suicide.

I was in the Police Academy with SGT Gates and I admire that he confronted this bully of a Commanding Officer.
Gates is a humble guy, but he is exceptionally powerful in terms of legal abilities. It is true, he is a lawyer and worked at City Hall before getting on the job.

In the academy, during classroom instruction, he would point out legal corrections that needed to be made in the outdated NYPD police procedure instruction manuals.

There were thousands of us in that old academy building and Gates had a wraithlike anonymity.

What I didn't get was why an ivy league trained attorney would leave a job at City Hall to work as a cop in a Brooklyn War Zone? Gates has seen major action on this job.

It looks like this job is taking a toll on him. You can tell he has life written all over him now. Poor guy

-- Edited by RoboCop1987 on Saturday 19th of October 2019 01:47:59 PM

-- Edited by RoboCop1987 on Tuesday 18th of February 2020 12:22:30 AM

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

Does anyone know how you start a second page for this post thread?

I heard the SGT that worked in the 24 that killed himself was getting bullied by his CO on a regular basis.
The CO was riding him and gave him a bunch of CDs in a short amount of time. The SGT then asked his SBA delegate to get the CO
off his back, then CO came down harder on the SGT and changed his tour. It was on his first day of his new tour that he picked up the gun.

Did anyone hear any other details? or anything different from the above?

brooklynbacon · Guru

CO signed off so he can have time to himself that wasnt his avps. Stop spreading rumors on dead mos if you are not 1000% sure of the facts.

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

I received the above information from MOS that worked with the deceased SGT. These are not rumors. His fellow employees informed me that
he was a recently promoted SGT which is a very stressful time. We need to discuss why this SGT killed himself so it doesn't happen again.

New Sergeants need positive reinforcement not negative, destructive feedback.

90z · Member

RoboCop1987 wrote:
I received the above information from MOS that worked with the deceased SGT. These are not rumors. His fellow employees informed me that
he was a recently promoted SGT which is a very stressful time. We need to discuss why this SGT killed himself so it doesn't happen again.

New Sergeants need positive reinforcement not negative, destructive feedback.

Well said!

Missing the Bx · Veteran Member

RoboCop1987 wrote:
I received the above information from MOS that worked with the deceased SGT. These are not rumors. His fellow employees informed me that
he was a recently promoted SGT which is a very stressful time. We need to discuss why this SGT killed himself so it doesn't happen again.

New Sergeants need positive reinforcement not negative, destructive feedback.

Hey Robocop. You have always seemed more like a reporter than an actual cop. If thats your angle to get a story thats fine. The thing about this situation is that youre totally wrong. The NYPD is a big rumor mill and information whether accurate or inaccurate spreads like wild fire. This was not a bullying situation. Not work related at all. Out of respect for him and his family I will not put the reason out there but he told EAU exactly what the problem was and it wasnt work. The CO was very accommodating and offered help. Its not right to slander a CO as a bully when thats not the case At all. Just coming from an actual UMOS who happens To know actual facts in the case. The job isnt the only stress people deal with in their lives.

Failboat · Senior Member

True, women cause the most stress. Feking kunts

RoboCop1987 · Veteran Member

Detective 2nd Grade Paul Federico killed himself today. RIP

KaneD · Newbie

Such articles are always very sad to read. This is due to the fact that the work of a police officer is quite difficult psychologically. I think that the state needs to develop a program of psychological assistance for police officers, but for now you can just talk to a psychologist online individually www.instagram.com/calmerry_com/ and talk about your problems in such work, you need to take care of your mental health.