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TransitJoe wrote:

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Exactly, theres a ton of commands. Try to pick 25 and be happy with anything after 15. 

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 Of course they're going to get worse and worse the further you go. But what I mean is with a ton of commands from every borough just about everyone should be able to get somewhere in their top few choices. It's not like there was a ton in Manhattan and very few in the other boroughs. 

Leslie wrote:

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PD2FD wrote:

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Leslie wrote:

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PD2FD wrote:

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SRGrook033 wrote:

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Any idea when current Lt bmoc class is starting at their new commands?

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 July 3rd= 1st day at their new commands

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 July 2nd is their last day of bmoc and our first day! At least as of now

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 You're in that 2nd class Leslie ? Congrats !!!

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 yea sure of it. Thank you! Unless my CPI holds me up but doubt it

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 So leslie and drpapi are both in this upcoming second class?! Dear lord! 

Theforceisstrongwiththisone wrote:

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In other news...im hearing strong rumors about this Lt. Mentoring program happening...can anyone confirm?

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 No way lol.

Theres only two differences between a sgt and lt:

1. You can tell sgts what to do.

2. You wear a white shirt.

brooklynbacon wrote:

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Theforceisstrongwiththisone wrote:

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In other news...im hearing strong rumors about this Lt. Mentoring program happening...can anyone confirm?

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 No way lol.

Theres only two differences between a sgt and lt:

1. You can tell sgts what to do.

2. You wear a white shirt.

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You had to go there? Now Im forced to chime in.

1. Lt's work 45 minutes a day for FREE.  (the small raise you get is actually offset by working 45 extra minutes with no compensation)

2.Lt's don't accrue chart time.

3.Lt's benefits suck.  

fodx wrote:

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brooklynbacon wrote:

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Theforceisstrongwiththisone wrote:

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In other news...im hearing strong rumors about this Lt. Mentoring program happening...can anyone confirm?

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 No way lol.

Theres only two differences between a sgt and lt:

1. You can tell sgts what to do.

2. You wear a white shirt.

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You had to go there? Now Im forced to chime in.

1. Lt's work 45 minutes a day for FREE.  (the small raise you get is actually offset by working 45 extra minutes with no compensation)

2.Lt's don't accrue chart time.

3.Lt's benefits suck.  

 

My LT did 180k last year and barely did OT. I'm at top pay sgt, did more OT and didn't come anywhere close to that.

fodx wrote:

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Impossible. Lt's make 125k, only 12k more than a Sgt but they also work more hours. You actually make more than a Lt does LOL

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 Stop hating just because you didnt do well and will stay a Sgt.

Its ok it really is. You dont have to fool anyone but yourself to stay a Sgt.

Going back to the reason this tread was started... any info on the next class?

Captains don't make 180/190k a year, forget about an Lt making that much without OT. I doubt you can make that much even with OT on a regular basis.

mike16 wrote:

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Captains don't make 180/190k a year, forget about an Lt making that much without OT. I doubt you can make that much even with OT on a regular basis.

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 A top pay LT who works in a good detail and gets about 35 hours per month can easily make 180/190k. I'm telling you, I personally know a few LTs (one of them works in Srg & the other in CRC).

By the way, top pay Captain is around 190k plus

PD2FD wrote:

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brooklynbacon wrote:

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fodx wrote:

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Impossible. Lt's make 125k, only 12k more than a Sgt but they also work more hours. You actually make more than a Lt does LOL

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 Stop hating just because you didnt do well and will stay a Sgt.

Its ok it really is. You dont have to fool anyone but yourself to stay a Sgt.

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 Seriously !! There's always haters on this job who try and find WHATEVER excuse to try and justify the fact that they did poorly on the exam and will never get promoted.

There's NO WAY a top pay Sgt will come close to making 180/190k per year. I know plenty of LTs who make that much without killing themselves.

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Lts definitely make 180/190 a year capping out on overtime. However one bad boss or incident can quickly kill your overtime... as a top pay capt youll make that without overtime, without guns and in a rubber room for rejects. They mess with you hrs but hey they own you no matter what rank you are! At least as a top pay capt they cant screw your last year numbers over! Pension, pension, pension!!!!!

ohnoes wrote:

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PD2FD wrote:

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mike16 wrote:

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Captains don't make 180/190k a year, forget about an Lt making that much without OT. I doubt you can make that much even with OT on a regular basis.

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 A top pay LT who works in a good detail and gets about 35 hours per month can easily make 180/190k. I'm telling you, I personally know a few LTs (one of them works in Srg & the other in CRC).

By the way, top pay Captain is around 190k plus

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 This in my experience is mostly true. Top pay Lt making 100 hours a quarter pulls in around 180. Top pay captain pulls about the same (there is a website where you can see everyone's salary). My issue is the 3 years or whatever it takes to get to top pay captain. In those years captains make less than a top pay Sgt making 100 hours a quarter. 

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 I think you mean top pay Lt making 100 hours a quarter ?

ohnoes wrote:

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No. First step for a captain is like 135 or 140. A top pay Sgt. with 400 hours a year easily passes that.

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 My point is...

Lets say you are a top pay Lt. making 400 hours a year OT. You're pulling around 180k. 
You get promoted to Captain, for 4 years (I think it's 4 years to top pay), you are taking a 40k pay cut. That's 160k you lost. You then hit top pay capt and now make 10k more than a Lt. it will take you a long time to make up that gap.
You're a Captain for 8 years you made up 80k. Still down 80k.
You get promoted to DI now you make like 20k more than a Lt. 4 more years you break even. It takes 12 years to make up that pay cut from Lt. to Captain (not even figuring in interest).

I know what's going to be said, Lt's are working more hours, Lt's don't get chart days... I understand it. But I'll work more hours to get more money. I won't voluntarily take a pay cut just so I don't have to work less than 2 hours extra a day on average. 

Financially it doesn't make sense unless you hit it just right and super early in your career, or your willing to stay past 25. 

Zeph wrote:

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What Lts make 100 hours a quarter? And if that exists, that would be approx 12 RDOs in 3 months. Youre saying that such Lts would be having 1 day off a week for the entire year to achieve 400 hours. Who does that?

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LTs in details easily make this many hours per quarter. That's only 35 hrs a month, not that big a deal to achieve. Patrol doesn't count in any of these conversations when it comes to making money consistently. 

PD2FD wrote:

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AWOL4Life wrote:

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Zeph wrote:

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What Lts make 100 hours a quarter? And if that exists, that would be approx 12 RDOs in 3 months. Youre saying that such Lts would be having 1 day off a week for the entire year to achieve 400 hours. Who does that?

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LTs in details easily make this many hours per quarter. That's only 35 hrs a month, not that big a deal to achieve. Patrol doesn't count in any of these conversations when it comes to making money consistently. 

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 I just gave 2 easy examples: CRC & SRG

In fact Housing and Transit LTs are probably bringing in decent overtime as well. Maybe not capping out a corner but they do pretty well.

Like Ohnoes and I have reiterated multiple times, a LT at top pay and in a good gig can easily make 180-190k a year. Don't listen to the naysayers and the haters, they're just upset that they're unable to obtain the rank.

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I make a minimum of 120 a quarter here in the squad and my LT makes exactly the same.  

FranknBeans wrote:

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PD2FD wrote:

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AWOL4Life wrote:

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Zeph wrote:

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What Lts make 100 hours a quarter? And if that exists, that would be approx 12 RDOs in 3 months. Youre saying that such Lts would be having 1 day off a week for the entire year to achieve 400 hours. Who does that?

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LTs in details easily make this many hours per quarter. That's only 35 hrs a month, not that big a deal to achieve. Patrol doesn't count in any of these conversations when it comes to making money consistently. 

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 I just gave 2 easy examples: CRC & SRG

In fact Housing and Transit LTs are probably bringing in decent overtime as well. Maybe not capping out a quarter but they do pretty well.

Like Ohnoes and I have reiterated multiple times, a LT at top pay and in a good gig can easily make 180-190k a year. Don't listen to the naysayers and the haters, they're just upset that they're unable to obtain the rank.

-- Edited by PD2FD on Thursday 21st of June 2018 11:30:38 AM

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 Umm housing LTs are NOT getting decent overtime. Only detail LTs and LTs at the boro/bureau are getting the good levels of OT to make 180k a year.

 

I mean at the end of the day an LTs quality of life is better. You can literally do nothing all your if u have 2 sgts. And sometimes theres 3 or 4 working. That equals naptime.  Average ot you're looking at 140 without working very hard at all.

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 FALSE !!! Housing LTs are getting DECENT overtime, I didn't say good or great overtime ie:CRC and/or SRG. I worked in Housing in the BX and if you wanted to as a LT, you can do Umbrella/Impact OT on a weekly basis. In the summer you have cornerstone etc. There's plenty of OT in Housing for LTs, especially in the busier housing commands.

PD2FD wrote:

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FranknBeans wrote:

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PD2FD wrote:

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AWOL4Life wrote:

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Zeph wrote:

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What Lts make 100 hours a quarter? And if that exists, that would be approx 12 RDOs in 3 months. Youre saying that such Lts would be having 1 day off a week for the entire year to achieve 400 hours. Who does that?

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LTs in details easily make this many hours per quarter. That's only 35 hrs a month, not that big a deal to achieve. Patrol doesn't count in any of these conversations when it comes to making money consistently. 

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 I just gave 2 easy examples: CRC & SRG

In fact Housing and Transit LTs are probably bringing in decent overtime as well. Maybe not capping out a quarter but they do pretty well.

Like Ohnoes and I have reiterated multiple times, a LT at top pay and in a good gig can easily make 180-190k a year. Don't listen to the naysayers and the haters, they're just upset that they're unable to obtain the rank.

-- Edited by PD2FD on Thursday 21st of June 2018 11:30:38 AM

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 Umm housing LTs are NOT getting decent overtime. Only detail LTs and LTs at the boro/bureau are getting the good levels of OT to make 180k a year.

 

I mean at the end of the day an LTs quality of life is better. You can literally do nothing all your if u have 2 sgts. And sometimes theres 3 or 4 working. That equals naptime.  Average ot you're looking at 140 without working very hard at all.

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 FALSE !!! Housing LTs are getting DECENT overtime, I didn't say good or great overtime ie:CRC and/or SRG. I worked in Housing in the BX and if you wanted to as a LT, you can do Umbrella/Impact OT on a weekly basis. In the summer you have cornerstone etc. There's plenty of OT in Housing for LTs, especially in the busier housing commands.

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 How long ago were you in housing because while decent is a subjective term, the overtime has been cut. 

JustWonderin wrote:

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ohnoes wrote:

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ohnoes wrote:

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No. First step for a captain is like 135 or 140. A top pay Sgt. with 400 hours a year easily passes that.

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 My point is...

Lets say you are a top pay Lt. making 400 hours a year OT. You're pulling around 180k. 
You get promoted to Captain, for 4 years (I think it's 4 years to top pay), you are taking a 40k pay cut. That's 160k you lost. You then hit top pay capt and now make 10k more than a Lt. it will take you a long time to make up that gap.
You're a Captain for 8 years you made up 80k. Still down 80k.
You get promoted to DI now you make like 20k more than a Lt. 4 more years you break even. It takes 12 years to make up that pay cut from Lt. to Captain (not even figuring in interest).

I know what's going to be said, Lt's are working more hours, Lt's don't get chart days... I understand it. But I'll work more hours to get more money. I won't voluntarily take a pay cut just so I don't have to work less than 2 hours extra a day on average. 

Financially it doesn't make sense unless you hit it just right and super early in your career, or your willing to stay past 25. 

-- Edited by ohnoes on Thursday 21st of June 2018 02:13:08 AM

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 Wrong for several reasons.  Captain hits top pay after 3 years in the books.  So at the START of your 4th year you are making more money than you were as a LT.  Second, yes youre taking a $40,000 pay cut but only for 3 years, not 4.  So after taxes, youre losing about $60,000 over those 3 years which in the long run is a small price to pay.  Third, LTs have to work 40 hours of OT a month to make what a top pay captain makes.  Sounds easy but trust me, it takes a toll on your body and family.  Youre taking about 11-12 hour work days 4 times a week.  A captain shows up for 8 hours and goes home.  Yes he or she may get stuck with a bag of **** but you take it in time and retire earlier.  Last but not least, overtime is NOT guaranteed.  There are rumors swirling that Shea is going to cut overtime in DB.  You can not rely on overtime, especially with this city council and mayor ( upcoming candidates looking worse) hating us.  At least as a captain you guarantee yourself $200,000 in your last year

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Point 1. 3 Years or 4 Years doesn't make much of a difference. Still over 100k you're giving back.

Point 2. Figuring after taxes (the money after taxes) is the same as figuring before taxes, because after taxes a Captain only makes 5 grand more than a Lieutenant. It's all the same in the end.

Point 3. I said that. And it's really not difficult to do 11 hours a day, been doing it for most of my life (this job and the ones I had before it).

Point 4. There is always OT somewhere. If it's not in the DB it's somewhere else. Promotions aren't guaranteed either, you could be a captain forever and have it take 12 years to make up the money. All it takes is one bad traffic stat or one person not liking you. Discretionary promotions are more fickle than OT.

I'm not here to argue with you. For me it doesn't make sense to take a 40k pay cut for any significant amount of time to make 10k more in the long run.
This is all a personal decision, my personal decision is to stay a Lt.

I look at it like this. Would I give someone 120k right now, for them to start giving me 10k extra a year in 3 years, for the remainder of my career. The answer for me is no. It doesn't add up. It might add up for you. God bless you, the department needs captains.

CappedOut wrote:

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Your figures only take into account time while on the job. More money = bigger pension for the rest of your life. Besides now that rookie captains can cash in the time for cash, the gap shrank more than that. Plus just getting the foot in the door for captains to make OT should help out future contracts big time.

I'm just playing devils advocate. Luckily my wife works so I know i'll be comfortable without having to go for captain. If she didn't, then I'd have to bite the bullet and study again. It's the better financial move in the long run, but its not for everyone (especially if you don't need the money).

-- Edited by CappedOut on Thursday 21st of June 2018 10:34:51 PM

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 I think this is wrong. I think it will actually lower your pension unless you stay A very long time. The loss of compounding interest on the 40k extra will hurt for years. You only Really make that up after a long time in rank. 

You get promoted you give up 120k. 

Lets say you serve 6 years a captain. You make back 60k. Halfway there, you got promoted. 

in three years as a DI you break even. 9 years after promotion. THe next year you start making more then a LT. 20 k. In this case it took you 120k and ten years to make 20k. Less than a 2% annual return. 

CappedOut wrote:

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The real problem is OT can come or go as quickly as a CO or ICO.

Stay a LT, top out at 115. Stay a Captain, top out at 151.

That's the only thing that worries me about staying a LT.

-- Edited by CappedOut on Thursday 21st of June 2018 10:50:42 PM

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Agree. But Ill roll the ot dice amy day over the discretionary promotion dice. 

fodx wrote:

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brooklynbacon wrote:

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fodx wrote:

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Impossible. Lt's make 125k, only 12k more than a Sgt but they also work more hours. You actually make more than a Lt does LOL

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 Stop hating just because you didnt do well and will stay a Sgt.

Its ok it really is. You dont have to fool anyone but yourself to stay a Sgt.

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You don't know where I am. I might be 150 or I might be 1300. My position would remain the same. The benefits don't outweigh the drawbacks no matter what your list number is. But then again some of it is a matter of opinion. You might love getting your ass kicked at meetings and working 45 minutes a day for free. I woudnt. See? Opinion  

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 Im just below 1000 and Ive put getting promoted out of my mind pretty Much. Look at the bright side, you keep your chart days and you wont have to work 45 minutes a day for free! LMAO

I DID 175K AS A SGT