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Cathetel · Senior Member

The list

Slate · Senior Member

I don't agree with u Deep and here is why,
Let's say u have 2 motivated individuals with families, but one has an inside gig behind closed doors and second one is running around on patrol. The office guy can put in study time at work, patrol guy on the other hand maybe on his meal if he gets one. So the playing fields are not really leveled. Of course the individual's motivation plays a big role but availability of time is just as important

-- Edited by Slate on Thursday 28th of January 2016 07:14:52 PM

scheduleB_magnet · Guru

Slate wrote:
Out of 128 people that passed the original test, there are probably less than 10 that are in actual patrol squads

I guess I'm 1 of 10 LOL. I was on patrol in Brooklyn North but I wanted it bad. Had I prepared to just pass this test I would've failed miserably. I know guys in "details" that had all the time in the world and failed. Look at the passing rate for the exam...4%. It was an extremely difficult test that was designed to mindf*ck you and get you out of your mindset and preparation.

Slate · Senior Member

I know u did, I did alittle survey some time back:)

scheduleB_magnet · Guru

I also had a kid that was hospitalized the week of the exam. There were a lot of things that were going on in my personal life but I got through them and here I am. I'm not one to make excuses for myself. Yes, this exam gave alot of guys and girls I know who studied just as hard as I did a raw deal, so I'm hoping that the TVB does the right thing here. Even though I passed I went to the protest session and protested 12 questions and followed the format to a tee, with articulation and supporting documentation. Whether they accept it or not is a different story but I at least went to DCAS and put up a fight for those who are less fortunate than I am at this time.

sgt2be · Guru

doesn't hurt that you had some support schedule b...long live the elite strategic table

scheduleB_magnet · Guru

sgt2be wrote:
doesn't hurt that you had some support schedule b...long live the elite strategic table

That table had 3 passers!

scheduleB_magnet · Guru

sgt2be wrote:
doesn't hurt that you had some support schedule b...long live the elite strategic table

We also met up at 0700 the morning of the test and did a rapid fire review for 2 1/2 hours prior to taking the test. We were joined by another gentleman who ended up passing as well. We gave everything we had for this stupid test.

sgt2be · Guru

haha yeah...but that 20 point drop off in scores is almost 100 percent accurate

DOA · Senior Member

I am painting with a broad brush. I embody the opposite of what I am saying. I was on patrol for the Sgt's test and passed. I was on a detail for this one and failed. Despite this, the bias I am referring to is apparent to me. I am certain it is for the rest of you too. If you could remove the makeups from the list you will find details disproportuonately represented. No one will dispute that.

People can, will and MUST prevail despite bias because some form of it will always be there regardless of what you do in this life. Still, I think it's a shame. It influences test results far more significantly than other factors.

I-go-deep · Senior Member

Cathetel wrote:
I-go-deep wrote:
I don't think it makes a great difference to be on an inside gig or patrol. I think it's all about the person studying. I was in a BZ house when I took my test and making a minimum of 40 hours a month in OT and I worked 4×12 collaring at LEAST once a week . I did some studying at work, but most of my studying took place at home and I scored in the mid 80's. So whether you're inside or outside it's all on the person studying.
Which test?

Sgt's test 2011

TransitSucks · Senior Member

i guess no list still

sgt2be · Guru

when the list is going to happen...you will know about it. Multiple ppl work in 1pp and you will have multiple ppl verifying it there not just one person...untill then we wait

DETSGT · Guru

sgt2be wrote:
when the list is going to happen...you will know about it. Multiple ppl work in 1pp and you will have multiple ppl verifying it there not just one person...untill then we wait

Exactly. We will hear word from everyone once the list is at 1pp

I-go-deep · Senior Member

Slate wrote:
I don't agree with u Deep and here is why,
Let's say u have 2 motivated individuals with families, but one has an inside gig behind closed doors and second one is running around on patrol. The office guy can put in study time at work, patrol guy on the other hand maybe on his meal if he gets one. So the playing fields are not really leveled. Of course the individual's motivation plays a big role but availability of time is just as important

-- Edited by Slate on Thursday 28th of January 2016 07:14:52 PM

Slate, I understand what you are saying, but like Yanosik says if I did it anyone can do it. It's how bad you want it and some luck (straight up test) I wanted it bad, I hated some bosses above me (I still do), they were aholes (some still are) and knew less than I did.

PD2FD · Guru

Cathetel wrote:
DOA wrote:
You said they were on patrol too which is an important distinction. It's not based whether you work in a precinct. The School Safety, Training and even Impact Sgts enjoy the same advantages as anyone in an outside detail (more in many cases). I'm not judging them. I'm in a detail myself. I just think, if the job wants to address bias in the testing process, that's where it needs to begin. Many details are filled by affiliation. It's just human nature. People on patrol tend to have the least affiliations (a.k.a hooks) so the anti-patrol bias over time manifests itself as gender and race bias too.
I agree, in a nutshell Queens, Staten Island Brooklyn and Manhattan are white affiliations the Bronx are spanish affiliations. This job as well as this country have never been so segregated.
Overall this job is broken up into what I consider families that belong to a chief or cluster of Chiefs. For example, the Oniel family vs the Banks family vs the Diaz family etc. etc. If you were affiliated with these families you're golden, if not you're going to have a loooonnnngggg career.

-- Edited by Cathetel on Thursday 28th of January 2016 07:14:10 PM

Unfortunately this is true...Bronx/Manhattan North/Brooklyn North are predominantly minority UMOS whereas Queens/Manhattan South/Brooklyn south are predominantly white. This is one of the disparities that the department needs to fix.

-- Edited by Cathetel on Thursday 28th of January 2016 07:17:01 PM

TurdBurglar · Senior Member

I guess you have worked in all the boros so can give a fair determination on the racial breakdown by boro? Im in PBBN and I dont see it being predominantly black or white. You guys are talking out of your asses

-- Edited by TurdBurglar on Saturday 30th of January 2016 02:04:09 AM

PA-TROLL SGT · Veteran Member

TurdBurglar wrote:
I guess you have worked in all the boros so can give a fair determination on the racial breakdown by boro? Im in PBBN and I dont see it being predominantly black or white. You guys are talking out of your asses

-- Edited by TurdBurglar on Saturday 30th of January 2016 01:19:32 AM

Yes. I expect better on the Rising Star forum.

-- Edited by PA-TROLL SGT on Saturday 30th of January 2016 01:34:50 AM

LtTest2015 · Senior Member

Yeah really those posts are pointless and so untrue. I work in Brookyn South and myself and one other Sgt out of 27 of us are the only white ones. The rest are predominately black, then Asian and Spanish.

Failboat · Senior Member

Is this exam a record, in regards to the list being posted?

DOA · Senior Member

My posts are in regards to Patrol vs Details not race, creed, etc. My point is if these tests are biased at all, that's where it exists. Objective facts do not change. You notify certain people at a barricaded EDP. That doesn't change depending on your race, gender or creed. You either know it or you don't. The fact is patrol doesn't enjoy the luxury of studying on job time and most people in details do. It's not a level playing field. I think the disparity it creates also manifests in the areas of race/ethnicity but it's an effect not a cause. The tests are classist not racist.

Having stated the obvious, I have no idea how you address it. You're not supposed to be studying on job time to begin with. Who is enforcing this . . . Bosses? Most of them studied on job time!

I don't need a lecture in overcoming obstacles. I did just that. For the Sgt's test I was on Patrol. I studied on meal and after I got home from a 4x12 until about 3am. I had a toddler at home at the time and my spouse worked. So I was up at 7 and watched the kids until I left for work. So my schedule was as follows: parent, work, study, sleep (a little), repeat. It probably sounds familiar for a lot of you. I basically slept about 4 hrs a day on a good night. I persevered and passed. There is no reason anyone else can't. Nonetheless, it killed me that I had colleagues literally studying for hours on end at work and never had to take the book home. It wasn't fair.

So what did I do? The only sensible thing. If you can't beat them, join them and that's exactly what I did! It didn't work out too well because right now I'm failing. I guess it's karma. It serves me right! LOLOL

Slate · Senior Member

Good post with strong analysis! Hopefully u didnt over analyze on the test:)
Same as ive mentioned before that patrol guys are at disadvantage due to inability to study at work Vs the detail guys that study behind closed doors. Unfortunately, this is how it is and it prob wont change. And i think its not that bad because it gives patrol guys incentive and motivation to move on to bigger and better things, thus creating better performance on patrol. There is always going to be disparity between classes and that creates better performance and competiton. We all know of one social experiment that tried to equate different classes thus making everyone poor and collapsing after 70 years of existence.
You asked how to address it, i think it doesnt need to be addressed. There has to be a healthy level of competition for optimum performance, although giving few extra points simmilar to what military guys get wouldn't hurt either.

Cop Pun · Newbie

The 2015 Lt. Exam Forum: It Eventually Leads To Someone Mourning The Fall Of Soviet Russia

LadyD · Member

This is nonsense! The patrol guys studied more than the gig guys. They had LTs that looked out for them etc. They weren't hurting for time to study. Sometimes there were four bosses working at the same time. That meant they had a half of your to hit the books. LTs looking out played a really big part.

Slate · Senior Member

Cop Pun wrote:
The 2015 Lt. Exam Forum: It Eventually Leads To Someone Mourning The Fall Of Soviet Russia

'it's Union. 7 grade geography

sixmonthwonder · Guru

LadyD wrote:
This is nonsense! The patrol guys studied more than the gig guys. They had LTs that looked out for them etc. They weren't hurting for time to study. Sometimes there were four bosses working at the same time. That meant they had a half of your to hit the books. LTs looking out played a really big part.

That probably depends a lot on your command and your boss.

natou · Senior Member

I have a feeling the list will be out this week.

sgt2be · Guru

Don't agree.....devil dog going down there this week...I think we're looking at the 17th like ondeair stated

Slate · Senior Member

Dog is not making first class anyways so u never know

Cathetel · Senior Member

The way things have been unfolding with this test, anything can happen. I personally feel vet letters for current failures will come after the list is established and they wil find out they passed before they get a vet letter.

-- Edited by Cathetel on Sunday 31st of January 2016 05:45:30 PM

Paul Benedict · Veteran Member

Maybe it's wishful thinking but devildog has a 77 raw score plus vets points and whatever else. He'll probably be in the first class. Maybe that's why he is being "expedited?"

Windeast · Senior Member

I think we should all spread the rumor that capt V is on the board for making the 2016 sergeant exam..

sgt2be · Guru

paul he got a 71 NOT 77

Iliketurtles · Veteran Member

Have we found any vets who got failed on the proposed answer key and received a veterans letter from dcas? If we get even one, we know there's some changes....

sgt2be · Guru

no turtles...itd be a big deal on here but NADA

Bklyn net · Senior Member

That's what I don't get unless there are no changes

sgt2be · Guru

well hopeful devil can get an answer.....just a question like are ohter guys verifying thier points this week might yield important clues...i saw pauls answers he got wrong...they are questions we all go bakc and forth on. So its hihgly unlikely that there are throwouts and he didnt get one of them. 2006 captain test had 0 throwouts...it can happen. As i said, it depends on dcas

wisecop · Senior Member

Bklyn net wrote:
That's what I don't get unless there are no changes

It doesn't make any sense and as bizarre as it sounds this is likely the case.

emt54 · Veteran Member

In my opinion, this test was tough but not the the absolute disaster that some make it out to be....I got a 69 and failed mostly because of time management. That being said, I dont believe there will be zero changes. A low number like 3 to 5 is most likely though.

Paul Benedict · Veteran Member

sgt2be wrote:
paul he got a 71 NOT 77

Ugh...

sgt2be · Guru

agreed emt....i think vet letters will be sent after the list release...or who knows...maybe list wont be released in february to begin with. But if devil is going this week...id expect others to go as well or latest week after

wisecop · Senior Member

emt54 wrote:
In my opinion, this test was tough but not the the absolute disaster that some make it out to be....I got a 69 and failed mostly because of time management. That being said, I dont believe there will be zero changes. A low number like 3 to 5 is most likely though.

I respect your beliefa but in the words of capt. Sullenberger, 'BRACE FOR IMPACT!'

emt54 · Veteran Member

wisecop wrote:
emt54 wrote:
In my opinion, this test was tough but not the the absolute disaster that some make it out to be....I got a 69 and failed mostly because of time management. That being said, I dont believe there will be zero changes. A low number like 3 to 5 is most likely though.
I respect your beliefa but in the words of capt. Sullenberger, 'BRACE FOR IMPACT!'

oh man..just crush my hopes....lol

wisecop · Senior Member

emt54 wrote:
wisecop wrote:
emt54 wrote:
In my opinion, this test was tough but not the the absolute disaster that some make it out to be....I got a 69 and failed mostly because of time management. That being said, I dont believe there will be zero changes. A low number like 3 to 5 is most likely though.
I respect your beliefa but in the words of capt. Sullenberger, 'BRACE FOR IMPACT!'
oh man..just crush my hopes....lol

The secrecy behind the TVB is weird but based on the rumors it doesn't sounds good. I protested a bunch of questions and ive read great arguments nevertheless several people are saying 0. It could be bull**** like alot of the other rumors, but......

emt54 · Veteran Member

Yeah, lots of werd stuff going on with this test. What really confuses me is if it is really zero changes, what is the hold up? How long does it take to put together a 200 person list?

wisecop · Senior Member

BTW there are no sgts in bmoc, there are promotions tentative for February 26 for LTs or capts. This week looks promising

Team J · Senior Member

I don't believe that zero changes are likely to happen. I am well aware that mike and the other instructors didn't take the exam. However many went to the protest and submitted many issues that they felt various questions had. Secondly a board who reviewed all of the submitted protests felt that 19 questions in some shape or form had an issue with them... throwouts double/triple etc. so out of those 19 .. they were all rejected?? I think not.. I read the board all the time .. I know the history with dcas and previous exams... but I just don't see that happening. anything is possible but I don't see It happening. my guess would be 7-10. There was a lot of controversy with this test as we all know which is the reason the list is not out now. Either way I Think everyone is going to be surprised. We should all know very soon.

sgt2be · Guru

i think your crazy to believe 7 to 10 J....but like you said anything is possible. Can someone take one for hte team and just date a dcas girl so we can find out some answers already!??

Team J · Senior Member

sgt2be wrote:
i think your crazy to believe 7 to 10 J....but like you said anything is possible. Can someone take one for hte team and just date a dcas girl so we can find out some answers already!??

lol ..IM on it.. going hangout in front of the dcas building tomorrow lol.. we cant get nothing from our dept...

Bklyn net · Senior Member

tomorrow is feb 1st ..hopefully this week we get solid info