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oneadditional wrote:

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Protest whatever questions you want to. Before the list was out everyone was complaining and was singing the protest song and now that people received only a 70 they want to talk down to the people who want to protest and tell them why they won't win a protest just because they got it right. That is hilarious. You don't need a whole bunch of people to protest a question to get it tossed. All you need is one good protest, that's it. Count on the pins question and the department vehicle accident as 2 definite throwouts and the job will do the rest to make the list bigger.

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I agree but after reviewing sum of these questions its gonna be hard to pick up alot of points. Im still protesting though! Good luck to all and channel the inner child in you that wanted something and convinced their parents to get it for them!

-- Edited by HB on Wednesday 23rd of November 2011 07:06:51 PM

Question #47 - Dept Vehicle Accident

 

Question #47 presented a scenario where a patrol sector was responding to an emergency assignment and the operator made a decision to proceed through a steady red traffic light at a constant speed. The sirens and turret lights were utilized during the response. The department auto was involved in a vehicle accident with a truck after proceeding through the red light. The question mentioned that the operator of the truck was unable to apply the breaks in order to stop in time. The truck was struck by the department auto. The answer posted by DCAS was: to find the operator at fault and not send the operator to driver retraining. The choices were as follows (unsure of order):

 

1. find operator not at fault and do not send to driver retraining
2. find operator not at fault and send to driver retraining
3. find operator at fault and send to driver retraining
4. find operator at fault and do not send to driver retraining

 

The above determination is the duty and responsibility of the Precinct Commander/Duty Captain, and cannot be inferred to be a duty or responsibility of a lieutenant unless somehow stated in the exact question. There was no mention of a lieutenant otherwise assuming the responsibility in the fact pattern. (P.G. 217-06 step #19 and Note following step #19)

 

In addition, "all proposed disciplinary action will be indicated on the Accident Report-Police Department Vehicle as a recommendation" as per P.G. 217-06 Additional Data. The recommendation section is not the responsibility of a lieutenant.

 

Also, by no means does P.G. 217-06 determine who MUST be sent to Driver's retraining. The Additional Data section only mentions "Driver retraining should be implemented" Again, Commanding Officers and commanders are referenced throughout the Additional Data section. Furthermore, P.G. 217-06 step #35 is the duty of the Precinct Commander and states "Implement disciplinary (or other) action, if warranted. Again, this is not a lieutenant duty or responsibility."

 

The Additional Data's last paragraph reports that disciplinary action would be more appropriate than driver retraining for those members of the service who are involved in vehicle accidents which occurred as a result of their unsafe disregard of such regulations (i.e. proceeding past a steady red signal, but only after slowing down, etc), as opposed to the member clearly having deficient driving skills. Again, this evaluation is NOT a duty and responsibility of a lieutenant in response to a Department vehicle accident. There is no way to determine which answer is correct, most correct or most appropriate in this question's scenario. The question should be disqualified as there is no correct or best answer based on the facts provided in the question.

 

PG 217-06 Additional Data

Members of the service who were involved in Department vehicle accidents in which it has been determined that the members driving ability was a contributory factor to the incident would benefit from the Driver Training Unit's "Accident Retraining Course." However, depending upon the circumstances, other corrective measures such as disciplinary action may be more appropriate. Therefore, to insure that only those members who would benefit are scheduled for retraining, the following guidelines are offered. Driver retraining should be implemented only if the operator of a Department vehicle is determined to be at fault due to a driving deficiency, based on factors such as:

 

a. weather conditions which affect the road surface

b. loss of control

c. backing

d. fender judgment

e. mirror usage (vans)

f. avoiding obstructions, debris, potholes

g. braking

h. turn negotiation

 

Commanding officers are reminded that the Driver Training Unit is a tool best utilized to improve a members overall driving performance. It should not be viewed as disciplinary action. The Commanding Officer, Driver Training Unit, is available to all commanders for conferral whether scheduling a specific member for retraining would be appropriate.

 

New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law (Section 1104 A - V.T.L.) allows the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when involved in an emergency operation, to disregard regulations with certain conditions. These conditions include proceeding past a steady red signal, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation, or exceeding the maximum speed limits as long as life and property are not endangered. However, it should be noted that disciplinary action would be more appropriate than driver retraining for those members who are involved in vehicle accidents which occurred as a result of their unsafe disregard of such regulations, as opposed to the member merely having deficient driving skills.

 

-- Edited by cornhole on Wednesday 23rd of November 2011 10:43:30 PM

-- Edited by cornhole on Wednesday 23rd of November 2011 11:04:09 PM

@ cornhole didn't one of the answers say give a cd?

the words "issue a CD" was in the answer choice, not the stem of the question

With all the money we gave these classes (key or fasttrack) they should spend some of that money and rent out the locations they used for the class one more day before the protect and go over the questions and Patrol Guide sections and help us. It may renew may faith in them.

RumorMill wrote:

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With all the money we gave these classes (key or fasttrack) they should spend some of that money and rent out the locations they used for the class one more day before the protect and go over the questions and Patrol Guide sections and help us. It may renew may faith in them.

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I only studied for two weeks and I am a rising star student. Rising Star is the best.

Stay Strong:  I hope I dont know you outside this forum cause you sound like someone I wouldnt want to work with.  Stop being so ****y.  No one knows what is going to happen until the answer key is finalized.  These patrol guide questions left too much room for interpretation.  Answers must come from the guide not thin air.

Also the guide says a clip must be similar to the hair color.  This girl was a brunette.  The dictionary states brunette is dark or brown.  

 

I'm not saying that its a bad answer also.  My point is that these questions left too much room for interpretation..  If you studied then you shouldve been able to pick the correct answer.  However, a studier could not difinitively pick a good answer because he/she knew that the question could go either way depending on who is reading or writing it..

This is from Mike Yanosik







2011 Lt's Exam Protest Session Information
 

I have put some information together for anyone who will be attending the Lieutenants Exam Protest Session. Like you, I will be attending also.

 

First here is a DCAS description of the process:

Candidates who take a written multiple-choice examination will be afforded the opportunity to protest the Proposed Key Answers. On the day of the test you will be provided with a Candidate's Record of Answers on which you are allowed to record, for your own personal use, the responses that you made on your official test paper. The Candidates' Record of Answers also announces when the Proposed Key Answers are to be published, describes the protest procedure, and informs you how to make a request to attend the Protest Review Session.

Proposed Keys for most Promotion Examinations are published on the 5th Monday following the day of the test. Proposed Keys for most Open Competitive Exams are published on the 4th Monday following the test. A Protest Review Session is usually held during the same week that the Proposed Key is published. Candidates are required to submit the request to attend the Protest Review Session. The request is a preprinted part of the Candidates' Record of Answers form. For scheduling reasons, this request must be postmarked no later than one week following the date of the test.

 

At the review session, you will be allowed to review the Test Booklet and Proposed Key Answers. The purpose of this review is to permit you to submit protests against the Proposed Key Answers.

You must appear in person;
You may not bring with you or have present any other person at this test review.
You may bring any reference materials you wish.
You may not bring any handwritten notes or recording devices of any kind.
There will be no rescheduling of appointments for the protest session.
 

If, as a result of your review, you decide to submit a protest to any proposed key answer you will have to substantiate your protest. Protests may be prepared and submitted at the time of the review, or they may be submitted subsequently. However, in no case will you be allowed to remove from our premises any materials relating to the test, or any notes that you may make during the review. Bring your Record of Answers and a pen with black ink and adequate personal identification to your session.

 

The protest period lasts for 30 days following the date of the Protest Review session. Protests and/or supporting documentation may be submitted by mail at any time during the protest period.

After the protest period is over, a Test Validation Board (TVB) consisting of representatives of the employing agency(ies), bargaining unit (i.e., union) and DCAS, Bureau of Examinations is convened to review all protests. The TVB is empowered by Section 50-A of the New York State Civil Service Law, to:

Change key answers,
Allow duplicate or multiple answers, or
Delete items from the test.
After all protests are reviewed, the TVB prepares a report detailing its findings. After the eligible list has been established, all candidates who submitted protests will be called in to read the TVB Reports. The determinations made by the TVB are binding. Therefore, no further changes will be entertained.

 

Now that you know the process, what should you protest?

Determine the questions that you did not answer correctly according to the DCAS tentative answer key.
Read each question that you identified and determine if you think there are grounds to protest.
Is there a factual error in the question?

Quote the section in the Patrol Guide, etc
Provide documentation
Is the question defective?

Example did they fail to articulate who you were in the question?  So you cant answer it? Different actors have different duties.
Provide documentation
Did the question ask about a duty other than a Lieutenant or other rank you can supervise?

If it did, explain why it is not a function of Lieutenant or a subordinate
Provide documentation
Was it a Judgment/Management/Supervision/Grammar question, where there is no document to refer to for a correct answer?

Articulate why your answer was at least as good as their answer  (There are court cases that support this)
Bring Police Management & Supervision textbooks with you to the protest
Find information in the textbook that support your answer.
Provide documentation
Was the question subjective to a point of view?

Articulate why your answer was at least as good as their answer.
Provide documentation
Please feel free to call me or email me to discuss tactics required to protest questions.

Mike Yanosik

Elite Strategic Training

516-761-9101 - please leave a message and I will get back to you as soon as I can. 

myano@msn.com

Tiger wrote:

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Firearm Removal question...double answer...Procedure is a Captain and above. A Lt does not prepare a Detailed Confidential Report nor prepare Firearm Removal Restoration Report.

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 Do you know where that procedure is located?, I thought it was in 212 but its not

cornhole wrote:

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I am lodging a protest to Question #64 on Exam No. 1534 Promotion to Lieutenant (Police). My protest on the Missing Person question

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Thanks Cornhole, Im protesting this question also

-- Edited by ImDrained on Saturday 26th of November 2011 03:57:29 AM

Guys, some of you went to DCAS and saw those ass clowns. Most of them got GED' and they f*** up time and time again on every promotional tests
Having said that, I highly doubt these mofos will read our protest papers. think about it, there will be hundreds of us and we will fill out hundreds of protest sheets with explanation. IMHO, what they going to look for is a pattern. lets say 500 of us say question number 4 is double answer thats when they scrutinize that question. Each and every one of us need to voice strong objection to in-basket. not just the questions but the way it was structured. at least judgment questions were tested on captains test and in the 70's but such in-basket never!

big guy wrote:

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Did the majority of us do that bad on the in basket though?? Looking at everyones posts with their incorrect answers for the most part looks like the majority did well on it and much worse between questions 20-40....

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 got a 69 overall, 10 wrong from that section

cornhole wrote:

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I am lodging a protest to Question #64 on Exam No. 1534 Promotion to Lieutenant (Police). My protest on the Missing Person question has its basis in the exact wording of Patrol Guide Procedure 207-23 Missing Persons. I feel the exam writers made a mistake by asking a question that has no clear definition within the procedure. The question on the Lieutenant Exam asked if a roommate could report someone missing (another roommate). While I do not argue that the definition of who qualifies as a missing person is clearly defined with PG 207-23, the definition of who can report is NOT. I think the exam writers opened themselves up to a protest on the grounds of the question being ambiguous and having no solid backing from the Patrol Guide.

PG 207-23 Note after step #1
 
A complainant could be, in addition to a member of the family, a legal or temporary guardian, a representative of the Board of Education, or a hospital administrator.
 

The above section of PG 207-23 does not use the words MUST, ONLY, CAN ONLY BE, ONLY PERMITTED TO BE, etc. The phrase "could be" is what appears in the Patrol Guide, therefore a roommate may be considered as an appropriate complainant based on the totality of the circumstances. The phrase "could be" does not mandate who is eligible to be a complainant in the matter of a missing person investigation. The question on the Lt Exam did not present any circumstances besides the roommate seeking to report his roommate missing. There is not enough information to disregard the roommate as a potential complainant in this matter, because there may be no other person available to in fact report a bonafide missing person case, which deserves appropriate police attention and response. If the correct choice, as per DCAS, is to deny to roommate from acting as the complainant, then I feel there is strong ground to protest the make up of this question. Whether or not the missing person was of sound mind or emotionally disturbed, or whether they haven't been accounted for in a few hours or multiple days/weeks/months was not provided in the question scenario.

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I am also protesting that one.

 

Furthermore, the NOTE following the definition of missing person (i.o.22s05) states that "Missing person complaints WILL BE accepted for person missing from temporary residences within NYC (hotels, rooming houses, etc.) However, complainants will also be instructed to report such cases to the local ppolice agency covering the permanent residence of the missing person."

outat20 wrote:

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big guy wrote:

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Did the majority of us do that bad on the in basket though?? Looking at everyones posts with their incorrect answers for the most part looks like the majority did well on it and much worse between questions 20-40....

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 got a 69 overall, 10 wrong from that section

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 The in basket got me. 8 wrong

I am going tomorrow hb.